Many thanks to our member Steve Wright no, not that Steve Wright for this interview.

Steve: Were you involved in any projects before LUCIFER’S FRIEND?

John: I'll start at the beginning. In 69 I went over to Hamburg with a band called "Stone Wall" from Newcastle. The drummer was Paul Thompson, who went on to be in Roxy Music, the guitarist, Vic Malcolm, then went on with Geordie and John Miles played on keyboards. We had another guitarist who went on to do various bits and bats and the bass player went on t be with "Wee Will Harris", so what was the line up. We came to Hamburg because the idea was, we'd get a band together from the North East and supposedly take the best musicians from every band. There was about 5 or 6 bands in South Shields at the time. John Miles was with one band, Vic Malcolm with another, etc. So we all got together, we had about three week rehearsing and we went to the Top Ten Club in Hamburg and played for 2 months. By the end of that two months we were as tight as hell and things were looking good. I was then approached by a guy called Gibson Kent, who used to be with a German band called "Paddy, Klaus and Gibson". His wife, Astrid, was the girlfriend of Stuart Satcliffe of the Beatles. Gibson said to me one night at The Top 10 Club "do you know your future is not in London, your future is here in Hamburg". So we all came back from Hamburg and I thought to myself maybe he's got something, maybe he's right, so I just left. Maybe it was good for the band because John Miles went solo, Paul Thompson went his way and so did Vic. So I went back to Hamburg. In 1970, I'd been there for 3 months when I joined Lucifer's Friend, who'd written some tracks and were looking for an English singer. Gibson put them onto me and we recorded the very first Lucifer's album which was called "Lucifer's Friend".

S: Was that your first album also?

J: Yeah, that was my first album and in the meantime along came the guy called Les Humphries, who you've probably never heard of. Les Humphries had a group called "The Les Humphries Singers" who sang gospel music. The group consisted of people from various nations - Swedish and Phillipines, etc. He said they already put a lot of English people and were looking for another one and that he had heard my stuff with Lucifer and thought my voice would fit in. So I said "yeah, alright" and joined them. Because the nucleous of Lucifer's Friend, the drummer, the guitarist and the bass player played with James Last Orchestra, the three of them were all earning their daily bread with him and I earned my daily bread with the Les Humphries Singers. At this time, we were doing Lucifer's Friend as a hobby and every now and then we would get together to do an album. Consequently this, the first album sold quite a bit in Germany. From there on I was doing bits and pieces when the Les Humphries Singers suddenly took off and had about four or five number ones all across Europe. So it because a thing where James Last was touring nine months of the year and I was on the road with the Les Humphries Singers about at least three or four months of the year. We would get together when we could and do and album, altogether we did about five albums. The second album took off in the States, at got Billboard Import of the year. Gradually things went on up until 1976 when along came Heep. That was not the end of Lucifer’s Friend, they got another singer and carried on, but I joined Heep at that time and that was that.

S: The band's five albums were "Lucifer’s Friend", "Where the Groupies Killed the Blues", "I'm just a Rock'n'Roll Singer", "Banquet" and "Mind Exploding". All the albums were released in Germany and America, were any released in the UK?

J: I think a couple of them came out over here, but it wasn't the right time. I've always said that Lucifer’s Friend was ahead of it's time.

S: Did you do a lot of gigs with Lucifer’s Friend?

J: In the beginning, no, we did about three or four gigs but we found it was not financially viable. The record company wouldn't invest into my kind of gigs, they were quite willing to do the records, but when it came to playing live they weren't too happy about it. We just carried on and along came Miles Copeland from America, he came over and talked to two of the guys from Phonogram. He tool a real interest in the band and we thought this is a break, but as things go it didn't work out. The deal he was offering, the German record company were not prepared to go along with.

S: How well were the albums promoted?

J: They were promoted quite well I think. They didn't have the promotion in the press over there as they do over here, but the publicity was good. We did a couple of TV things, which were alright, but it didn't take off the way it should have done. You find in Germany even to this day, that bands from England and America and very well accepted especially if they're a heavy rock band, apart from the Scorpions and probably Helloween. It took the Scorpions a long time to take off in Germany they had to go to America first and it was the same with all German bands, they had to make it over here before they could make it in Germany. That was unfortunately what happened to Lucifer’s Friend, if we'd cracked it in America we might have cracked it in Germany.

S: Maybe in England too?

J: Maybe in England too but in just didn't happen.

S: You say The band eventually got a new singer?

J: Yeah, Mick Starrs joined when I left to join Uriah Heep. They offered me a better deal and the rest of the guys were touring more than ever with James Last. We all had mortgages to pay and along came Uriah Heep. It was something. I couldn't turn down. Previous to this, I should have auditioned for Deep Purple. I kicked myself for not turning up for the audition. So, when Heep came along I didn't want to miss a second bite of the cherry.

S: How did the Lucifer's albums sell?

J: They didn't sell into hundreds of thousands. I think the first one sold about 25,000 which for that time was very good. In the States I think we sold about 50-60,000 which was good for an import.

S: So, with Uriah Heep you did 3 albums in about 3 years, not bad going?

J: Yeah and 9 months of each ear on the road. There was a lot of ups and downs, I was a bit cheesed off towards the end, we weren't getting anywhere.

S: They were three good albums with some cracking tracks.

J: There are some good numbers on there, then out on the blue there was a hit single. "Free Me" from "Innocent Victim". We'd almost finished the album then Ken Hensley came along and said "I've got this song. It might not be anything but we'll give it a whirl". It turned out to be Heep's biggest single even in Europe, it went straight in at number 1 and stayed here about 5 or 6 weeks. It had nothing to do what Heep were doing before that, it was a straight forward pop song so consequently this was seen as the way to go. After that we started to write wierd pop songs and that just isn't me, I can't write pop songs to save my life. "Free'N'Easy" for me was what it's all about, blood and guts. So, we sat down and tried to do it but it didn't work out, you could feel the riff coming between us. A couple of us were saying let's go back to what we're all about and do some good kicking stuff and the rest were saying "L" signs rolling in their eyes and thinking of commercial pop songs. That's how it came to the rif. (?)

S: Did you promote each album on the road?

J: Oh yeah, we did more than three tours. The first album was already completed anyway, all the songs were there so basically I just had to go in and sing it. As soon as that was ready we went out and toured for 6 months.

S: That was the Firefly album?

J: Yeah, we toured all over Europe and the States, it's the was to do it. If you've got out, then you've god to promote it and we're talking about the days before huge investments in videos.

S: So you had to sell your music live?

J: Yes, that's it, you had to go out and sell it live. If you can pull in a good crowd and give them the night of their lives, then to me that's what it's all about.

S: Can you remember any B-sides that weren't on any of the albums or any unreleased songs? I believe "Masquerade" was the B-side to Free Me in Germany.

J: Was it "Masquerade"?

S: It was, in Germany.

J: Yeah, but they change from country from country. There were quite a few good songs that we didn't release, well, I thought so anyway, I would think "this is good, it should be on there", but it wasn't commercial enough; so it didn't make it. But, so far as I can remember most of the B-sides were on the albums.

S: Are there any good stories you can remember from the Heep days?

J: Yeah, there was a phase where we had this image, Ken Hensley used to smoke on stage, but after "Free Me" was a hit we decided to clean up our act because it wasn't a heavy metal song, we decided we wanted to look a bit better. They all got nice cut jackets and trousers instead of the old jeans so I said "fair enough" and I got myself a whole leather outfit and wore eye make up and feather earrings. Lee Kerslake got one of those big caftans but it was like a shirt, all silky and he had a pair of tight silky pants and thigh length boots. Anyway, at the end of our act, when everyone is hitting the chords, Lee would get up on hi shit and stand on it. On the final chord he would jump off.

S: What, over the drum kit?

J: Yeah, over it. Anyway, the last gig of the tour we did with Kiss was no different to any other tour, the roadies would get up to tricks. They had found from somewhere one of those small round trampolines on rollers. I could see this thing on the side of the stage and I thought, Jesus, what is this. Anyway, Lee get's up on his kit and he's just going to jump over and on comes this trampoline, he was in full flight and I could see it coming across the stage and I thought if he hits that he'll and up on the front row. Just as he jumped he saw it, it was like a scene from one of those old movies, they gave it a little push from the side of the stage and it stopped just where he would land. As he came down he tried not to land on it and he spread his legs and split all the seams on his trousers!! They got me once in Germany. We'd gone off stage and said our goodbyes at the end of the show and when we went back for the encore we went straight into Gypsy. I went to grab the mic and as I did it fell apart in my hand. They had got a banana, covered it in silver tape, stuck one of those rubber mic ends on the top of it and there was a lead tuck in the back of it. Of course you don't see it in the dark, I grabbed it and thought - oh, no!, the band were into the song and thinking why isn't he singing, and I'm stood there with a squashed banana in my hand, what a laugh! Another one was when we had a support band called "U-Boat" which was Woody Woodmansey's band, they were all nice guys but they were all into The Church Of Christ Ascientist or something like that and there was always a strange atmosphere on the tour bus. However the roadies decided they would set a rig up above the stage, it was a net like you see at carnivals, they pull the net and release balloons. And the end of this gig, we were watching and someone said "Don't look now nit what's that above the stage". It was this net but it was full of potatoes and it was above the drum kit. I was thinking, they can't do this, these guys will freak, but at the end of their set when they had done their hit, the crowd were clapping and they all went to the front of the stage to bow. As they did the net was released, I don't know how many pounds of potatoes were up there but you've never heard such a noise, they were bouncing off the kit and going everywhere. Yeah, we had some fun.

S: So you parted company with Heep?

J: Yes, I went off and did and album with Tony Clark who used to produce the Moody Blues. He came up with the idea to do a concept album, like The Alan Parsons Project. For some tax reasons he decided to do it in the Bahamas so off we went to Nassau, it was terrific. I thought it was a good album, it was called "Arc" and was about this satellite and how it viewed the world, that was the basic idea behind it and the songs were good. There was a lot of money invested in but in the end he didn't seem to be satisfied with it and he couldn’t find the investment from the company to completely finish it. It's unfortunate really, there were some good musicians on it, unknown but good, it's just another one of those things where people put money in end but it doesn't work out.

S: What record company was it?

J: CBS

S: Was it solo project under your name?

J: No, it was a project he had thought of it and I don't really know who it would have come out under. I think it would have just been called "Arc" or "Arc Project". I had a good time because it was November when I got back and I was all nice and brown. I thought if I'm going to Nassau I may as well make it a holiday so I took my wife and kids. We booked a hotel but it was half an hours drive from the studio I hadn't even hired a car which was stupid. I thought it wasn't going to work out when someone from the studio said there was some bungalowea within walking distance from the studio and we could have one. It was the bees knees, we were right on the front overlooking the sea, we had our own little pool and it was too hot to work during the day we were in the studio at night and sunbathing by the pool during the day. Low and behold, next door to us was Peter Frampton, yes! Peter Frampton, the lad next door. I hardly ever got to talk to him, it seemed a bit rude but I enjoyed that time and when I got back I did another Lucifer's Friend album called "Mean Machine" and we went on the road to promote it.

S: Did they ask you to rejoin?

J: Yes, because Mike Starrs, the singer who replaced me wanted to leave and go solo. Peter, the guitarist phoned me up, he's still the guitarist I work with now, we've known each other for more than 20 years, he told me about Mike leaving and asked me if I knew about any other singers, I said "I really couldn't tell you" and he said "would you consider it" and I said "yes, of course, we're all mates so why not". We made Mean Machine at Farmyard studios in Luton, it was the first time we'd ever recorded outside Hamburg, I wanted a different feel on the album so we checked out a few studios but Farmyard offered us a good deal, a different environment and it was a good studio. The sounds on the album are not as good as we wanted, we found it difficult to work there. Plus the fact that if your producing yourself as we were you tend to get carried away with your own thing. I'd be thinking the vocals weren't loud enough or the guitarist would think his solo wasn't loud enough. Consequently, your fighting yourselves. Whilst I was in Heep we had the same problems, we were trying to produce ourselves even though Gerry Bron, the manager, was supposed to be the producer, he didn't have much idea. It was decided that we'd bring on Jimmy Miller, we thought he must be something if he's produced The Rolling Stones but he turned out to be the biggest waste of time I’d ever seen.

S: Was "Mean Machine" the last Lucifer's Friend album?

J: Yeah, we did the album and a tour which they promoted by saying "Lucifer's Friend featuring John Lawton, ex-Uriah Heep" and all that crap. I didn't want that because I'd been a long time part of Lucifer's without all that crap, I didn't find it necessary. They guy from the promotion company said "we've got to have it, it's a big draw on the posters", but I told them I was against it. It only brings a lot of tension amongst the other members of the band. It's not as it I'd just joined Lucifer's from nowhere, we'd been together a long time. However, the tour was not a successful one, we'd got to towns and find out there was no posters up. Nobody knew we were there and by the end of the second week we realized that only by some massive push were we going to get this together. Lucifer's had only played a few live gigs years ago and you just can't expect a band to pick up and be absolutely perfect. We should have done a small tour and said OK, that was just a warm up, now let's do it properly, that would have been good. Unfortunately, after that, the bass player decided he'd had enough, the keyboard player went out to Copenhagen and the guitarist and the drummer carried on playing with James Last. While we were on the road we actually drove ourselves around, we had a big Mercedes bus which I drove, that was great! It was a good time because there was only us guys and our wives, it was like one big happy family. I still work with Peter, the guitarist. When I go over to Hamburg at Christmas I'm going to a German company called Metronome, they come under the Polydor umbrella. My old Mate Gibson Kent, who told me to come back to Hamburg that time, he's in charge with Metronome and they've picked up on one track I've done. It’s a slowish song, Bryan Adams style and they didn't like the way it had been done so now they've got a keyboard player who's got his own studio. He can fiddle around with it and come up with a completely different version. When I go back at Christmas I'll re-sing it and what happens from there.

S: What happened after Lucifer's Friend?

J: I did a solo album called "Heartbeat". I wrote the songs with the guitarist from Lucifer's Friend. RCA in Germany jumped on it and they said they would only agree to take it if they could do it worldwide. I said, "I don't mind of you want to sell it worldwide". RCA in New York jumped on and they said "this is good, we like this". It got good reviews in Billboard, I've still got them. I was on the phone to RCA in New York a few times, they said the album was on play lists but they didn't bother with any promotion. I offered to go over to do some promotion work. I even said I'd pay my own air fare and hotels etc, all they would have to do was line up a few interviews and promotional stuff but all they said was the time wasn't right. Time went on and nothing happened, they never followed it up.

S: That's sad for the artist.

J: Yeah, they just sat on it and didn't bother to do anything, even though I offered to pay my own way. While I was on the road in Germany doing some radio promos for the album a guitarist came up to me from a German band and said "we've got some stuff we want you to sing on", I said, "I can't really, I'm promoting my own solo album here", but he said "just listen to it". So I did and I liked it, it was heavy metal but I'd tied myself down with RCA. I said, "I'll tell you want, I'll produce it then we'll get the best of both worlds". Along I went to produce it but the singer couldn't crack it so I ended up singing on it. It came out under the name of Rebel and sold quite well in the European countries, nothing special. I thought it was OK but it disappeared for about 18 months. Then they asked us to do a second album but with a different bass player, drummer and keyboard player. This turned out to be Zar. We did the albums and a lot of promos which was quite good but when it came to touring I didn't know whether I wanted to tour again and go through the same thing as I did with Lucifer's Friend. Consequently I told the management that I'd promote it all I could but when it came to touring they would have to get someone else which is what they did. The last thing I heard the record company weren't putting enough money into the band, they'd had to buy themselves on to a tour. Whether they're still going or not I don't know.

S: So what happened after Zar?

J: I'd been doing session work for a while such as backing oohs and aahs for people, TV and radio jingles, it's quite good because it's not hard work and there's nothing serious about it. So I keep my hand in that way and I also run a florists shop as well. A friend of ours was the manageress when the woman who owned it sold out. I came in as a sleeping partner, you have to invest for your future dabble in the flowers.

S: So you're not into flower arranging?

J: No.

S: How long have you played the guitar?

J: I'm not a serious guitar player, originally I could only play a few chods but when things got serious with Lucifer's Friend, I thought you're going to have to learn more than the 3 chord bash. So I started playing around and I eventually got myself up to being able to play good rhythm and melodic solos. We did one track for Heep which was never released, it sounded a bit like Coronation Street, I wrote and played solo for that. When it came down to recording the track we got an orchestra in as well. When I look back on some of the Lucifer's stuff now I think good God, where was I when I wrote those lyrics, where was I doing and thinking when I wrote that, I mean, the lyrics on "Banquet", to me, I thought at the time that this is how lyrics should be, no story line, just lyrics to suit the music, there were lots of songs where I thought to myself, no, this doesn't warrant a story line. Take "Whiter Shade of Pale", there is no story line, it's just a lyric, but it fits great with the track. It's not saying anything but it sounds good and that's the way I used to think.

S: Do you have any plans at the moment for a project?

J: Yeah, I've done some stuff with Peter Hesslein from Lucifers Friend, we always stay in contact, we did some tracks about 6 months ago. We thought they were good at the time but looking back now they're a bit dated sound wise. We're going to re do one track over Christmas which is a ballad. We think it could be very good given the right treatment. Apart from that I'll just continue doing my sessions and stay Happy.